NC State Best Surplus Value Players — Do We Agree? — Tuffy Talk

Greg and Ethan break down the most underrated and slept on NC State players across every sport, the athletes who outperformed their roster billing and gave the Wolfpack more than anyone expected in 2025-26.

Football: was the offensive line NC State's most overlooked unit? CJ Bailey's value relative to his contract gets debated. Basketball: Quadir Copeland, now signed with the Houston Rockets on a two-way deal, leads the list, with Paul McNeil's loyalty and production right behind him. Does NC State basketball need NBA-level talent to compete in the ACC? Greg and Ethan go back and forth. Baseball: Rhett Johnson's 28-game hitting streak and historic freshman season make him the unanimous choice, with Sherman Johnson, Ty Head, and Chris McHugh rounding out the conversation.

Plus: a closing debate on the NC State women's cross country dynasty and whether Laurie Henes can sustain it without Katelyn Tuohy.

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Transcript

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All fired up and live the Wolf Pack Nation, where a hell of a crowd from the first pitch to the final play. Tough call. Let's roll today. What's up, Wolf Pack Nation? Welcome back to another edition of Tough Talk. Ethan Berry alongside the legend himself. Greg. The leg. Greg. Already? Oh, well, always for you. I did something fun, uh, a couple of weeks ago on our Patreon. Uh, actually, it was in a couple weeks ago. It was like recent, uh, where I ranked my my guests and I explained they're I just I've really gotten into, like, rankings. Not not just gotten into, but. No, but they're fun. I love the idea of, yeah, it's it's fun to rank stuff and it's not easy to do that. Um, in the NC state sports landscape. Right. And so, right. Uh, we ranked the top ten by my expected projected. However, you want to label that top ten highest paid players of this upcoming season school year, I guess. And we're going to take a quick look. Quick look at last year. Thought about should we do highest paid for last year. No. We said let's do something fun. Let's do the we're going to do the five highest. We're we're going to do ten. We're going to do five with some honorable mention of our top surplus value. Um, that's basically NC state got from players last year across sports. We're going to do one from every sport. And then we're going to pick an extra name. And then um, we're going to have a couple of honorable mentions throughout. Kind of like the stock market right. Buy low, sell high kind of thing. Right, right. That's right. That's a great way to describe it. Yeah. And and just so other people understand surplus value. Surplus value is basically the gap between what what you are paid and the financial output of what you produce. So if you're talking about let's just use a quarterback for example. Right. Like okay, if I determine that and I'm just going to throw this out there if. You throw if you're a quarterback and you throw for 1000 yards, I determine that's worth $1 million. Well, if I pay you $1 million and you throw for 4000 yards, and I'm again determining that 4000 yards is now worth $4 million, if each thousand yards is worth$1 million, then I got $3 million of surplus value. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. Basically, you want, you want. You don't want Ryan Leaf's contract. Plus, production is what you're telling me. Right. Yeah. Players become less valuable the more you pay them. Yeah. You see that in pro sports? My Celtics are trying to trade Jaylen Brown right now. And he's on one of the biggest contracts in the NBA. So he's not as valuable as somebody else who's not as good of a player but is making is making less money because again, that allows you to spend money on other things. So hopefully that luxury taxes. That's right. Um, because we know billionaires need to be cheap, right? Um, but hopefully that explanation makes sense. Definitely. Uh, let us know if you have any questions. Uh, we can we can definitely explain that more, but. But, Greg, let's jump into it. What sport do you want to start with? Um, well, we talked in in our previous episode that football is king. So let's start football. Let's start football. So I've got a list of four. Do you have, well, one for each sport. Yeah, yeah. Who would, who would your guess. Who would your guess be for football for? Remember, this is last season based on what they were paid last year. Yeah. I think all eyes are always on the quarterback. So I think the easy one would be CJ Bailey. Um, coming off of his freshman year, um, where he started, what was it, nine games this freshman year, I want to say. Um, and then was given the keys to the kingdom his sophomore year. And so he had a little bit of leverage to make a few extra dollars. Um, again, small sample size from his freshman year ish, I guess. Um, but yeah, let's do CJ. And, you know, I think the number, if we want to talk numbers was probably right around $1 million, give or take. Um, a little bit there. So. So again, for argument's sake, here, let's say he made $1.5 million last year. Again, we have nothing concrete that says that was the number. But there are always rumors out there. So based on that dollar value, give me what you think. Yeah, well, Bailey was my answer. I was asking you to guess. I know, you know, we had discussed picking Bailey. A little bit. Yeah, but. And there are some other good names that we'll get to after here. Um, but yeah, for me, and again, it's tough because I know we've been critical of Bailey at times, but I do think the the production that you got for a million. A million and a half. Pretty good, pretty good. Uh, you know, you look at the overall numbers. Um, he threw for 3100 yards, uh, 25 touchdowns. Uh, ran for six more. I want to say it might have been seven. Uh, it was successful. Wilson got. Yeah, well, Wilson got like ten of them. Right. So Bailey still has 31 touchdowns, right? Yeah. Um, he took care of the ball. You know, that stands out. When he has six interceptions 706. Over the course of the season. Yeah. Uh, actually I think you're right. Seven. Um, and they all came in in four games. Right. So I think if you're looking to nitpick with Bailey here, it's, you know, the numbers were there. I, I, I don't think that's the question. Were they there in the biggest games. Not necessarily. And I think that's kind of where you look at it and say, well, You know, is this truly the best surplus value? But again, if you look at NC state in those biggest games, specifically looking at Notre Dame in Miami, it wasn't. Yeah. It wasn't just on him. Right. There's not one. You're not pointing at one guy. Uh, in those games. So yeah, it was actually it was nine interceptions. Really? Okay. Yeah, yeah. He threw three against Duke and Notre Dame. One against ECU, two against Miami. Yeah he was okay in the running game right. Gave you 200 yards. Obviously the sacks bring that number down. But again running for six touchdowns. When you had a guy as good as Will Wilson. And short yardage situations like again that's that's pretty solid. And so to me when you look at what quarterbacks are getting across the country with CJ Bailey is likely getting this year. I think the production that he gave you last year is pretty solid relative to what he was played pretty solid. Um, and like even again comparing it to Brandon Armstrong. Now again, the market has changed so much since N.C. state landed Brandon Armstrong. But I like it was. And. Again more. Yeah. And to the point right when you have someone like CJ. Yeah. CJ Bailey uh you're going to look at a couple of factors because again market value is what you're willing to pay a guy. Like that's what the market value is. Yeah. And and how much you value his services. And or like again with college sports being a free agency year to year proposition, sometimes you have to overpay in order to retain his services. Yeah. And and and that's a that's a big factor into like these numbers that we're talking about right here. And to your point last year I, I thought I thought he we got good value out of him. Um like were there some things that you would like to be like you would like to see the clean up. Absolutely. And you brought on the sacks, right? Holding on to the ball too long, sometimes not being as aggressive as he as he could be. Uh, taking the safe route. Um, you know, the this year, I think it's going to look different because your weapons are going to be different. Like the wide receiver room right now is a is going to be a question heading into this year. You know, he doesn't have the likes of Troy Anderson and and uh, Rogers and um, even um, gosh dang it. Uh, we the kid we got from Wake Forest a few years ago. Oh, Grimes. Yeah. Grimes. Thank you, Wesley Grimes. Um, so. So now, the nice thing is, is some of these guys that he has brought in or not, he. But state has brought in for him. He has a relationship with. Right. Some of these wide receivers, the running back he played with in high school. So it's not a complete you know re familiarization with that. But I I'm definitely curious to see how this year's numbers are going to turn out based off of the rumors that we've heard that he got a nice a nice pay raise, if you will. It's going to be a different conversation this year around CJ Bailey. Well his expectations you know are higher. No doubt. Yeah. When you get paid the money that again he's allegedly receiving that output better be relative. I don't want to say you can't put up any duds. But you can. You can. And we'll see. We'll see. Um, basketball. Who comes to mind there? Oh, it's 100% credit or Copeland. It's not even I think. There's a. I mean, you could make a case. Mhm. Paul McNeil obviously again I, I, I just don't we don't know the true numbers of what they're making. So that might be where we would end up splitting. Let me ask you this. If Paul McNeil and Cartier Copeland made the same amount of money last year, which would you take? I just think that Kadir gave you more on both sides of the ball than than Paul did. Um, and when I mean, that is like, yes, Paul offensively has more than Kadir. Um, especially Kadir. Towards the end of the season, it got a little funky. I thought some at times Kadir, uh, pushed too hard and tried to make too many plays, uh, and too many perfect plays, that is. But his intensity. We talked about it on the live stream the other night. His intensity. What he gave you defensively. Just a just a a team leader, um, you know, love the fans. Um, even on like he would with regards to the fans. And again, I know this this doesn't add quote unquote value, but for me it's just one of those intangibles which you can't be measured in dollars. Like he's the he's the guy on your team like hockey. He's like the enforcer of a hockey team. You love him when he's on your team and you hate him when he's not. But and we saw that, right? Like we hated him when he was with Syracuse, and we absolutely loved him when he was at NC state. And again, I don't think you can put a dollar value on that, but it just it's for me if you're if you're looking for a slight difference in ranking them, I think that's maybe why I would give the edge to career. Yeah. Yeah. I do think Kadir was just a little more valuable. Like, I, it's hard to imagine what NC state would have looked like without Kadir Copeland last year. Well, let me, let me, let me let me throw this at you and let me get you a response. Did you expect the output from him? Number one. And number two? Did we even expect him to be part of the starting five when? When the roster was being built? I did not. Um, and to be fair, I didn't expect that with McNeill either. That's why I think there's two guys you know, are so similar. I would lean Copeland here. I, I think he got paid a little less than McNeill, which I think we're kind of probably splitting hairs there. But I do think he made a little less, which if you're saying, hey, they were equal players, that would that would end up being the difference in surplus value right now. Well, here's another thing I can. Let me throw this at you. And again, apples to oranges slightly because they're different years. Kadir Copeland didn't get drafted. I'm pretty sure Paul McNeil will. Maybe. But what he has done takes a step back. Yeah. No, that's the problem. Right. Because that's that's his calling card. I think he's got to show a little more I think defensively. Right, 100%. Certainly if we keep an eye on that end this year. Yeah. Um, I, I do lean Copeland just because I don't know what it would have looked like without Copeland, without McNeil. Like, I think you could replace what McNeil gave you. Yeah, I think he was able level. Yeah, but able probably would have done. Solomon. You know, in terms of spacing the floor. Like would it have been as good. No. But would it have been like 80% of it. Yeah. Yeah. Probably Trey Holloman wasn't doing what Kadir Copeland was doing. Matt Abel was not doing what is called. Correct. Nobody was. No. Nobody was. I mean, that's why he had a 28% usage rate, a 42% assist rate. I mean, the next highest assist rate on the team was 17% with Darian Williams. The next highest usage rate was Darian Williams at 23.7%. So he was just head and shoulders above everybody else in terms of having the ball in his hands, creating all that good stuff. I think he was the the heartbeat, I guess. Is that the right word? Like 100% was the heartbeat. Yeah, yeah. Heart and soul. Yeah. Yeah. And blue. Guy. Whatever. Whatever cute word you want to use there. Yeah, exactly. I think from a numbers perspective. Not a big gap here. Really not a big gap. So I do think you're splitting hairs. I think they both deserve to be in this conversation. But I do lean, Kadir. Um, for those reasons. Paul McNeal. Um, one be here. Right? Like, if you were to make like if we were to expand this list. He's right there. And again, we're going to talk some honorable mention in a little bit. To me he's not even honorable mention. He deserves to be in this conversation with Kadir Copeland. But again, similar to CJ Bailey, we talked about the the you know, who's going to be the highest paid players this year. Guess who the list starts with at NC state this year. And it's not hard to guess right. Yeah. Yeah. And if I had to guess the numbers are pretty similar. You think I, I would push I've. Heard I. Think you've heard. Okay but I would I also heard some things about and we'll talk about off air but I the numbers aren't very far apart. I think they're less than a half million to three quarters of a million difference. Okay. I just wonder, you know, football has more money than basketball. Yeah. You know, and so I wonder if that sort like I would guess their percentages of what they're getting is probably very close. But if you. Know football has 15 and basketball has ten. Like, yeah. No, I think the percentage is probably higher with McNeal than it is CJ. Again, don't ask me to do public math because we've had this conversation, but I it's pretty close. It's pretty close regardless. And clearly the two highest paid guys I mean, not even a debate. Nobody else is even in the same universe. So different conversations about both of those guys this year. Um, fun stories last year. They're going to be asked a lot of this year. Yeah. Uh, let's women's basketball. I, I do think we gotta throw women's basketball. I mean, these guys are not making chump change. No. You know, they're they're, uh, being compensated very nicely, I would say. Is it as nicely as UConn? Is it as nicely as LSU? No, no, but we know that NC state yeah UCLA yeah we know NC state allotted $1 million out of their revenue share there 20.5 million to women's basketball. And I think there was there was I'm assuming there was probably more, not a ton more, but some more in terms of nil. Uh, who do you have your eye on there? This is a tough one. This is a tough one for me. Yeah. Um, I think it's Camille. Pierre. I do, um, she didn't get a whole lot, from what I understand last year. Um, but the production, again, much like we talked about. Kadir, if you don't have Camille Pier, and I don't know if this is even a hot take, but without Camille Pier, this is not an NCAA tournament team. Um, you don't think so? I don't. I think with the way they use Traeger, I would agree with you. But maybe they use trigger differently. Maybe they use trigger differently without Pierre. Yeah, but but again, I mean, who are you rolling out there in pier spot? Maddie cox no offense to Maddie Cox, but Maddie Cox. What did I do? Yeah. No. Why am I catching strays from these knuckleheads? Um, no. And it's they're just different players. That's that's where I'm going with it. Like, you know that they're the they're both tall. That's where the that's where the comparisons stop. Um, yeah. And I'm with you. Yeah, I, I kind of want to go Traeger here, but I think the circumstances where NC state landed. Camille. Pierre. Yeah. They landed her for less money than she would have gotten on the open market. And again, another player who this year, it's a different conversation. Mhm. Um. And Traeger, look, I know like all the points per game weren't there. Her usage rate was. You gotta touch the ball to score. A lot of times. You gotta touch the ball. Usually. Usually. Usually. Yeah. Um so in terms of efficiency, I think Traeger was probably NC state's best value. But because they got Camille Pierre under, um, abnormal circumstances, I guess. Right? Uh, that was definitely. A. Close. We didn't even know she was there. Yeah, she just showed up and said, hey, I'm here to play basketball. Right. Well, he didn't. All right. Yeah. I'm sure. What's more, best for On campus was like, wait, wait, who are you? Hey, don't you play basketball, right? Um, um, so for that reason, yeah, I think state got her at a discount. And so I think that makes the most sense. Um, you know, obviously Zoe Brooks was, was, I assume, the highest paid. Um, you know, again, good year for your best player. Um, excited to see what she can do in year four. But it just doesn't shoot it well enough for me. That's my only complaint about Zoe. Yeah, it doesn't shoot well, and I. I just don't think she did enough to say. Yeah, you're getting again. It's hard when you're paid as the highest player. It's hard to be on this list. It's hard to be on this list. You have to be go dish like you. You. You have to, like, be the best. It's it's hard. It's, you know, a lot. A lot is put on you. And she plays 39 minutes a game sometimes damn near all 40 minutes. Uh, she gives you everything she has. And again, this is not a knock. We're just it's it's a it's a value thing. And I if if she shot it just a little bit more, gave me a few more points, I, I, I would have no problem putting her as the person for women's basketball. But it's just it's just not quite there to the point that you made about Camille. Pierre definitely getting her below market value. All right. This is our wheelhouse now, Greg. Let's do it. Baseball. Baseball. Hey, let's let's cross some names off. Yeah. Jacob Duda and Ryan Marone. Yeah. Um, not on the list. Not because of injury, but also injuries. Yeah, yeah. But also like, again, highest paid guys on the roster. Theoretically. Um, yeah. Now, if they stay healthy, like, talk about. You know, if they're your highest paid, can it be possible? I think you can make the case that if those guys go on a run and they're they're in the postseason. Yeah. You end up in Omaha. I think that's the scenario where where you would use is because still underpaid relative to market value, I think probably most guys. 100%. Roster. Were 100%. I know for if I was going to say, I know for a fact that they had offers out there from SEC schools that would have doubled and tripled what they made at NC state. So 100% below market value. But because of the injuries, I just don't think you can put them on this list. Anybody else you want to cross off? Um. I mean, just because I got one off. Yeah. Thai Head, I'm sure, is who you're thinking about. I wasn't looking at Luke Nixon. No, I wasn't going to go Luke Nixon. Um. I'm right. I'm running out of people. Mikey. Ryan. Mikey. Ryan. Yeah. Yeah, I think probably paid more than I think people realize. Um, is that a accurate assumption? Okay. Fairly accurate. Yes. Um, yeah, that that would be my push back there for. Had a good year. Had a good year no doubt. And again, if he doesn't get injured, I think this conversation looks differently as well because he was just catching his groove when he got injured. Yeah. Yeah. And I also wonder with what he had done previously, I think he was compensated very nicely considering he basically had no track record coming in. Mhm. So but again you definitely. Yeah. You were definitely playing the futures market with him right. And and they play the. It played out very nicely for NC state. Round of applause for NC state for for how they handled that situation I know I was I was the first guy to be like hey I don't know about this. You were and you were. There were some ups and downs, but you got to feel great about Mikey Ryan headed. You and James Henderson went around on this a couple of times that I remember listening to. So. Um, so. All right, so who still got it right? I think it's it's it's the guy that came out of nowhere. If you're a casual NC state baseball fan, um, even myself is a little bit more hardcore. Um, I didn't wasn't able to catch him in fall ball last year, but he was all the talk. And you kept hearing this name and you're like, really? And then I saw him, and then I'm like, that's gonna be our guy right there. That guy and that's Mr. Rhett Johnson. And damn if Rhett Johnson wasn't the man this year. Yeah. Yeah. You know, a higher profile guy, I think, in terms of his recruitment than you would expect looking at him, looking at his profile, um, had some real options, right? Mississippi state. Arkansas. Um, Vandy. The the creme de la creme of college baseball. Um, yeah, I I'm not I, I can't sit here and tell you I know how much Rhett Johnson got paid. I don't know if you can. I can't imagine a freshman outfielder who doesn't hit for power got paid very much. And, you know, maybe, like, maybe if Mississippi State and Arkansas, like, again, I just don't know how much those incoming guys are, are really getting. We know that that's not something they haven't really prioritized. Will that change under Chris Hart? I'm sure you still want to have the foundation of your program be the same, but you'd also like to have a little more money to play with. And so. um, again, I don't know how much he had. I just assume it wasn't very much. Um, and I think with the year he put up. Compared to what he put up, like, you're getting ready to. Say. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and so, yeah, I, I, I think it's right. Johnson I actually, the more I think about it, I think there's another guy who's actually right there with him and maybe, maybe even better, maybe even, uh. Is his name Sherman Johnson? His name's not Sherman Johnson. Okay. Um, but he crossed my mind as well. Yeah. Are you gonna. Are you. I'm just thinking of production. Was that Nixon? Nixon? Yeah. Yeah, I think he was arguably NC state's best player this year. I think between him and Thai Head, I think it was one of those two. Yeah. And I think Thai had likely his profile likely got paid a little bit more. I also Nixon was better in ACC play you know, and so when you're looking at okay overall numbers pretty similar. But next. One matters. We play. Right. When it matters the competition is better. So man I wonder if I, I, I know we had talked. Hey we're going to pick right here. I kind of think it's Luke Nixon. I mean, Luke Nixon's war. Luke. When Luke Nixon was worth almost half a win more than Rhett Johnson, according to synergy. Yeah. The other part is, since we don't know the true value. Like what? They really got paid. It's. It's a guess, though. I don't think you can necessarily go or excuse me, be wrong in either direction that you went with this. Um, I will say that Luke Nixon is flashier than Rhett Johnson. Um, Rhett Johnson just is a his dad's going to shoot me if he listens to this. And and I say he's just a ballplayer because Joe love you, Joe. Uh, Joe hates when people call Rhett just a ballplayer. Um, you know, that's the. That's the easy. He's just a ball player, like, you know. Um. But he the the stereotypes get thrown to him, right? He's a dirt dog. The coach's son, all those things. Yeah. He's great. Dixon's the same way. Yeah. He's pretty. Yeah, yeah. First one in, last one out, that kind of thing. Exactly. I think that stuff applies to Nixon, though. I do like it does. It does. You know, um, and and again, that's I think it's easier with Luke because again, his, his lineage with, you know, his brother and then his dad, um, you know, he just grew up around baseball. Not to say that Rhett didn't grow up around baseball. That's not the comparison that I'm making here. Um, but it just it just looks different off of each of those players. Um, I think, too, that Luke hits for a little bit more pop and that, you know, kind of, you know, chicks dig the long ball, if you will. Um. Including me? Yeah. Are you calling yourself a chick? No, I'm not. I'm just saying I dig the long ball. I know you do, but. Yes. And the other thing, too. I wonder if, because of Nixon's profile, his dad's an MLB. Like, I don't know that NHL is as big of a deal there for some of those other. And and again, Neil is not like we're talking about market value here and NC state is playing or did play last year below market value in general. Pretty much everybody on their own everywhere. Yeah yeah. Yeah. We're just one of those. I just wonder if. Yeah, Luke Nixon was a little bit lower than the other guys on the team because of his situation, where it's just like his dad's an MLB guy. Yeah. And compare him to Ty Head or Chris McHugh. Right? Like, is he making as much as those guys? Probably not. Probably not. And sometimes it's not. Look, money is nice, but it's. Sometimes it's not the end all be all. And we saw that with with dude and and maroon and there were opportunities to go make more money. But they said, hey, we started this thing, we wanted to finish it and some guys are just like that. You know, they're they're they're okay. Um, but I don't think either either Rhett or Luke is the wrong answer or the right answer for that matter. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, what? Honorable mentions across sports stick out to you. Anybody? We didn't talk about that. You're like, yeah, we got to talk about this guy. Uh, Isaac Trumbull I know we talked about him in our in our moments, um, when you win a national championship. Yeah, yeah, when you win a national championship. And those sports probably aren't getting much of anything. Um, yeah, I again, if you're getting paid zero and when championships are getting paid minimal and winning championships, you're you're definitely exceeding the value. And, uh, yeah, you can mention a couple that you mentioned, Donovan. Um, the defender that was like the defender of the year. I can't remember his name and I apologize, but he went really high in the MLS draft. Um, kind of had, like, a foreign name, but. Uh, I think those guys are tough just because. What's their market value, you know? Um, but certainly they got great return on investment there. Well, both of those guys were number one draft picks in the MLS, respectively, both of those guys. So that must mean you're pretty good question mark. Yeah. Theoretically. Right. Um, a couple other guys I want to throw out, Davon marshall. Um, yeah. Hollywood smothers. Um, Terrell Anderson, probably my favorite pick on the football side. Yeah, I think that's an easy one to write. If it wasn't CJ. Terrell would have been high up. I mean, he just got paid like nobody's business to go to USC. Um, he was very super massively productive at NC state. Probably. Maybe not statistically, but probably overall I think he was your best wide receiver last year. I don't even think that's maybe a hot take. Um, I know Noah had his moments, but again, the usage rate for Noah wasn't quite there. Yeah. Um, which that always like in this two years I we can save that for another podcast. But I think that's going to be one where we look back and go. Don't don't open up old wounds, man. I'm I'm healing bro. Please. I know well, especially if James were ever listen to this because I know he loved Noah. He was the president of the Noah Rogers fan club. Yeah. Smothers Fordham. I think those guys were compensated nicely. I would say. Yeah, for them. But for them like led the country in tackles. He did. Yeah. I would also throw Sloane and Harsh out there like state landed those guys late in the process. Now I don't know that their production got up to a level where you're like, okay, this is a ton of surplus value. But I don't think they got paid a lot though. Exactly. So I think state did a really nice job there. Getting getting a lot of bang for your buck just wasn't necessarily at the level of yeah, Terrelle Anderson who I if I were ranking these guys it would go Bailey Anderson. Marshall yeah. Yeah I would. And then everybody else kind of falls in afterwards. Basketball. The the other guy out there out there is vanilla and Lubin. Obviously we talked about McNeil. To me that's a clear top three. I think when you're looking at centers this year, we talked about it. Your centers are just crazy expensive. Getting down Lubin for, let's just say, somewhere around a million bucks. Yeah, it was a reason like the production you got, like, if you were paying Venable and Lubin half of what you're paying Kyle Evans. Like, that's pretty good. And Lubin is not even a true center. Like, if you could have put him at power forward and Evans at center, man, that would have been something to to watch. But you know, every year it's going to look different. And we just you know but yeah no good great value for Lubin. And he was a guy that, you know, had multiple stops at multiple places and seemed to get better each place he went. Yeah. Um, women's basketball. Sorry, guys, I don't really I don't have like an honor. I guess trigger would be my honorable mention. Um, I don't think Sam Jones maybe. I mean, that's a that's a stretch for me. Yeah. I mean, I'm guessing she was probably the second highest paid player. Uh, second or third. Behind Brooks, her and Traeger, I guess. Yeah. Um, and then baseball. I think you you hit the nail on the head with, uh, Sherman Johnson. I think that's a guy you added late in the process. I can't imagine, uh, the JuCo transfer. Yeah. Had to break the bank for that one. No, they'll. You know, he was committed to Arkansas previously. Um, but the year he came in and had for you, again, similar to Mikey Ryan. Up and down. But down the stretch, he was your best hitter. I mean, the last month, six weeks, he was carrying the offense. Um, had a really, really nice year. Two and a half wins on synergy above replacement. So, you know, again, not not quite at Luke Nixon or Rhett Johnson's level, but again, in another year. I think you're probably talking about Sherman Johnson in that conversation. Agreed. Agreed. Well, this was fun. I like these. Like, yeah, I just own things. A little different. Little outside of the box. Not your normal conversation. Um. But. Yeah. Good one. You want to. You want to send us home? Yeah. Let's wrap. Uh. Appreciate you guys tuning in. Make sure, like, share, subscribe. Wherever you guys listen. Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Myspace. Greg, that's for you. Know, I still have it. Yep. Yep. But, yeah, I appreciate. You giving my top three. I'm your top three. You don't even know about that, do you? No, I don't, I don't. Yeah. See, if you gotta come with a Myspace joke. You better be ready. Apologies. I'll get us out of here. Get us out of here. All right, guys, thanks for tuning in. Be sure to check back in. We'll be back live on Monday night. Stay tuned. Uh, to the Patreon three times a week. Uh, and again, like, share and subscribe.