Chris Hart's First Interview: What Changes After Avent — Tuffy Talk

Part 2 of this conversation is on Patreon.

For 30 years, NC State baseball meant Elliott Avent. Now it's Chris Hart's program — and he just spoke to the media for the first time since taking over.

Ethan and Greg break down what he said, and the answer that caught them both off guard. Asked what he'd do differently, Hart didn't talk about pulling pitchers or building a lineup. He talked about expectations — specifically about coming from Florida State, where getting to Omaha wasn't a goal you chased, it was the floor. He told a story about Texas beating the Seminoles and nobody celebrating the season, because Omaha had been the assumption all along. He wants that standard in Raleigh.

Along the way: whether winning the ACC should be a real goal or an afterthought, why fans may have been souring on Avent after three decades, what playing to your personnel actually looks like for this roster, and the stolen base problem that drives Greg crazy. Rhett Johnson went 7-for-9 on the bases for USA Baseball this summer. He had 14 steals all season at NC State.

Plus what it signals that NC State promoted from inside the building instead of hiring away from it.

Part 2 is on Patreon — coaching staff roles, the roster, and where we think this team actually lands. $5 a month gets you that plus 11 more breakdowns:
patreon.com/c/tuffytalk

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:41

Wolfpack Nation, welcome back into another edition of Tuffy Talk Live, Ethan Barry alongside Mr. Leg, Greg the Leg. Greg, how are you today? Good man. I'm excited. Um, we're gonna talk some baseball, I think, right? We are gonna talk some baseball. And this was originally gonna be a Patreon, but I think Greg, we used our our common sense and said, you know, we try and keep the Patreon. I try and keep the Patreon to 20 minutes. And I said, there's there's no way that that Greg and I are gonna talk baseball in 20 minutes. And this was a an episode that I I don't like, it's not something we had been planning on or anything, but Chris Hart kind of fell off our lips. Yeah, Chris Hart talked to the media last week, and um I I was really excited by what I heard, and I know you were as well. And so we figured we'd we'd get on here and and kind of react to it. So this isn't like an emergency podcast, you know, we talked a couple of days ago, but it's more of like a like an urgent, maybe. Is that a is that an accurate description, Greg?

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Well, yeah, I think we we had the ability to digest what uh what was put out there or uh consumed as uh we like to talk about in content. And uh, you know, we kind of had some time to think about it, and now we want to express how we thought about it. And I think I think people are gonna be pleasantly surprised uh by our reactions, these years, because you you sometimes get a negative connotation unfairly, yeah. But uh I I think they're gonna be happy with uh how this thing turns out.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Yeah. And just before we really get into it, there's a bit we don't know how long this is gonna go, right? Like, so there is a possibility that we split this into two parts um and and potentially put the second part on Patreon. So we'll kind of we'll play it by ear and see how that goes. So if you're like, man, the the the discussion got cut off halfway through, that's probably what happened. So be sure to to check out uh on the Patreon uh by the way.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

That Patreon is only five dollars a month, right? So like it's good value. Yeah, yeah. We're just trying to grow the brand a little bit so we can give you guys even more content.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

All right, Greg, let's hop right, let's hop right into it. So um I mean, look, I don't know what your kind of thought process on this process was on this. I know for me, I had been waiting for for Chris Hart to talk to the media. I expected there to be a press conference, you know, kind of after the season ended in in June. And that never happened. Um, and so you know, month goes on, a couple months, and you start talking to people like this gonna happen? Like you you you want to hear what he has to say. Um, and and feels like there's questions that need to be asked, as you would any you know, new coach. And uh so finally, uh there was it was I think it was done very quietly, but uh obviously there was a good group there. Um Hart spoke to the media, I believe it was Thursday afternoon, uh, and touched on a number of topics. Um, I I know the stuff I was most interested in, what's gonna be different from Elliott event, um, you know, his path to get here, kind of his approach in the portal, things like that. What was one thing, Greg? What was one thing that stood out to you uh or question that was asked that you were really most looking forward to? Where you said, Hey, I I really want to know what Chris Hart has to say about X?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, for me, it was really recruiting, right? I mean, we all know that he was basically the recruiting coordinator, uh, but you know, he still had a boss to answer to. So he still had to kind of go after what that boss was looking for as in Coach Avent. So was his recruiting philosophy going to pretty much stay on par or stay on course with how it's been done, or is he going to look at it a little differently? And then how was he going to work with different position groups, if you will? Uh, those were the two things that I was I was most curious about.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yeah. Yeah. And I thought he did a good job um you know, covering those things and and um, you know, addressing it. For me, it was what's going to be different from LED event, right? Because to me, that's kind of the million-dollar question is you know, you know, what what LED. I mean, we've been watching LED A event baseball for 30 years, right? And your entire lifetime. My entire life, yeah. We we don't know any different, you know, like we don't know like we I I have these expectations, like I know, okay, this is gonna happen because this is the way it's been always been done. And so what's gonna be different? And his his answer to me really, really stood out. Um, and I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Before you get there, let me ask you a question. Yeah, before you get there, let me ask you a question. When you say what was gonna be different, were you looking for more of an in-game thing, off-field, a little bit of everything? Like, kind of what were your thoughts with regard when you make that statement?

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Mostly in-game, and and I think correct me if I'm wrong, but I I think off the field, I think Chris Hart's does most of the work, did most of the work. Um, not that not that Avent wasn't involved, but I think I think Hart really had the the keys to the program, so to speak. Um now I think in game, I don't think that was the case. I I think Avent was I don't want to call it a dictatorship, but I I think he was he was the one calling the shots, at least that's my kind of impression. I don't know, do you do you disagree with that? Like, do you think no? I think he managed everything.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

And I I hate the word micromanage or you know, yeah, you know, those type of negative connotations, but I think he just he had a philosophy, and sometimes you just got to take it and own it and run with it. Now, it did sound like Chris um was running offense, but again, like how much is that dictated from Avent and you know, so on and so forth? But uh yeah, no, I I'm with you there.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

And those two guys have been together for so long, you know. Avent can yeah, right. Avent can call for a bunt in this perfect situation. He probably doesn't even need to call for it anymore. Chris Hart just knows, hey, this is the spot where where Avent's gonna want to bunt. So, um, so for me to answer your question, yeah, I I I thought, okay, it's mostly gonna be in-game stuff that would change, right? Maybe like some lineup stuff, some how do we approach pitchers? Um, I would say roster, yeah. How do you build the roster? I thought, you know, the one of the first thing that comes to mind is pulling pitchers, right? And the game of baseball has evolved to you pull pitchers proactively, you pull pitchers before they get into trouble. Starters go five innings, you don't let them go through the lineup the third time, you know, all uh different variations of that, right? Obviously, not every exact situation is exactly the same, right? So, to be honest, that's kind of one of the easiest, I don't easiest isn't the right word, but like one of the most obvious. I think it jumps off of the page, yeah. Yeah, it jumps off the page, yeah. Um, more aggressive on the basis, things like that. But anyway, Chris Hart's answer had nothing to do with that, and I thought it was a great answer. Um, and basically, uh and again, this isn't word for word, but um, he basically said he he came from Florida State, where you kind of take for granted that you're going to Omaha, right? He said it was an automatic expectation that we would host a regional and go to Omaha, and that was his mindset. He brought that here to raise the bar for players. Um, and he said, Hey, you know, getting to a regional is hard, right? It's not easy. I think it's kind of the one sport where like qualifying for the for the tournament is actually still hard. Um, and obviously getting to Omaha is hard. But, you know, the focus when he was at Florida State was getting to Omaha. That was it. Um, and then he told a story about uh Texas beating them and uh yeah, and they didn't even celebrate, they just shook hands and said, we expect to go to Omaha. And I and uh I think they won, I don't know if they ended up winning the national championship or whatever. They did win the national championship that year. So I I thought that was a great answer from Hart where it wasn't really something that you think about, you know, like and again, it's hard to to differentiate this from Avon and be like, well, Avon, X, Y, and Z. Like, I don't want I don't want it to be like that. But I there were at times I think a sense where you just kind of felt like state was just kind of happy to get in, and it was like, okay, we made it in, and now let's see what happens. To me, Chris Hart kind of said, no, like we're we're expecting to get in, we're expecting to host a regional every year, right? And you know, he talks about okay, we're gonna if we're gonna aim for a national championship, we can fall short and still still have a really good season, right? And um, but if you you know your goal is to win the national championship, that's that's the goal. And I think that was Elliott Avent's goal too. But I I don't know. I just that that answer really stood out to me. And again, he was asked, you know, what are you gonna do differently? He very easily could have said, well, you know, Avent run a great program, or Avant ran a great program, like we've been doing he's done a great job, and we're just trying to keep things on the right path. But I I thought he went out of his way to say we are going to raise expectations. That was kind of my my takeaway from that.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

No, I agree. And you know, it's again, unfairly, when when you have a head coach there for 30 years, it's really hard to say something new, right? And I think when you when you get Chris Hart coming in there, it's a it's a fresh perspective. It's probably nothing different than what Ellie Vince said, but again, it's just coming from a different voice, and so it feels different, right? Whether or not it does or doesn't, time will tell. But I think that it does get people rejuvenated, you know, riled up, you know, fired up, whatever you want to say, and be like, okay, like welcome Chris Hart, you know, welcome to the Chris Hart era. Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah, and and again, Avant's goal was to win a national championship as well. Absolutely mentioned that many times, almost to the detriment of other things, right? You go back to 2025 when State had an opportunity to win the ACC and LA David was just like, we care about getting Omaha. That was what we care about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Um, and so I think to that point, yeah, to that point though, I think you should have multiple goals, right? And so for him to kind of dismiss the ACC as eh, that we have lot we have loftier goals, sure, that's fine. But like, don't be disingenuous. It's still an accomplishment. Yeah, absolutely it is, right? Because when you look back at the season, you know, only one team can hoist the trophy in Omaha, right? But again, to what Chris Hart is saying, like, hey, you can make it or not make it to Omaha and still have a quote unquote successful season, and and in point, that would be one of those things, right? Winning the ACC regular season, winning the ACC tournament, hosting a regional, whatever those goals are, it's you can still check those boxes.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Let me make a comparison for you. LA Daven versus Wesmoore. Who do you think is more highly regarded?

SPEAKER_01 11:33

It's probably West Moore. I think so too. And it's and again, what are you valuing, right? Because again, if we're calling Omaha essentially the final four, which it's quite not quite, but it's it's it's basically it's close enough, right? Avent went to three. We've only wes has only gone to what one?

SPEAKER_00 11:53

He's only been the one. But I think wet uh and and here's kind of my point is I think Wes is valued more highly because of the other stuff he's won. They won three ACC titles in a while in a row. They coaches of the year, like coaches of the year, but even like team accomplishments, like they've won the ACC regular season, I think, twice. Um, they've been to a couple of elite eights where they have come up short, they've been to the Sweet 16. And to where, you know, with Ellie Daven, it's like, okay, he went to Omaha three times, which for you and I, that's that's awesome. But other people look at that, look at it and say it's like, well, he's not won a championship. He hasn't won a championship, right? And so I I I think to be honest, that's as a college sports fan, that's one of the things that that I love. It's like, okay, yeah, only one out of 300 plus teams is gonna win lift the trophy every year, and it's incredibly unrealistic to expect that. But you have all these opportunities. You have a conference tournament you can win, you have a conference regular season you can win, you can get to Omaha, you can get to a Final Four, you can do all these other things. You can go on around right, you can make the Elite Eight, you can make the Sweet 16, and that's still considered an accomplishment. You compare that to pro sports, and it's like, again, as a Celtics guy, as a Red Sox guy, either we win the title or we don't. You know, like there's no, like, there's no you you go to the TD Garden in Boston, there's no there's no conference championship banners hanging there, the only for winning a title. And so, you know, I I think that's the great thing about the college athletics. And so we'll see, you know, back to Chris Hart, does Chris Hart kind of focus on that? But that was kind of the impression I got that it's like, hey, we're gonna raise the expectations. And you know, uh part of it too is winning the ACC regular season, winning the ACC term title, that helps you, that puts you in a better position for the postseason. I've made this argument many times going back to last year. Your only chance to host last year was to win the AECC regular season. That was your only chance. And you host, you have a better chance to get to Omaha. And so that was one of the things that that really kind of stuck with me after those quotes from Avon. But anyway, long-winded thing to say, I really like where Chris Hart is is kind of setting the expectations here. Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

I again, it just feels different, right? Again, it may or may not be the same things that Elliot Avent was saying, but because it's coming from a new voice, um it just it hits a little different. And I and it it does, I think it does rejuvenate, like I hope it rejuvenates. And this is really like, you know, we said we weren't going to be negative, but I I do feel like people were kind of souring on Elliott Avent because he had been there for so long. And now that you have a new voice, a new a new sheriff, you know, maybe people will start coming out, right, to more games and and doing that. And maybe, you know, you because you've seen the re you know, you've seen resurgences at Carolina, as much as I hate to say that, Georgia Tech, um, where you've seen coaching changes and then like something just flips, and now it's it's a whole different uh perspective. And again, it's always gonna be, you know, we've talked about this before. Baseball's always gonna be third or fourth fiddle behind the you know the main sports. You know, maybe maybe your goal is to get it to third um and compete really quickly.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

I think at NC State it's always gonna be fourth.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

I I do too, uh, unless unless something just dramatically changes. Um, I mean, heck, um, you know, Reynolds is bigger than than the Doke, right? So it's you know, even just from getting bodies into to games, it's it's just gotta hit a little different. But with that being said, I I'm I'm hoping people will, you know, take notice and be like, huh, okay. Maybe maybe we need to go check out a ball game or two.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Yeah. He talked a little bit about um you know, style of play, and this was another answer that I liked offensively. Um adapting to your personnel, looking to hit for power, and uh um being able to run, right? Like I to me that was something that yeah, we we well when you look at this roster that they built for 2026, we've talked about it. You don't have a bunch of guys that are gonna mash 20 home runs. And he was asked about it. At least not right now, yeah. Not right now, yeah. And he he was asked about it, and he basically said, We want a balance, right? We want um you can't have a bunch of stiffs. He didn't say stiffs, I'm saying stiffs, yeah, who only who only hit home runs but can't defend and can't run. Yeah, right. But at the same time, you can't have a bunch of little guys who can only you know field and who can only field and run but can't hit for power, right? So yeah, um what do you take away from that? And and you know, as we get ready to look into into next season and look at the offense, what do you what do you kind of expect from this group that they've put together?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah yeah, it it I don't know if balance is the right word yet. Like again, in in and and coach mentioned this, like the team did take a couple of flyers on some guys, you know, we'll talk about them, probably not in this podcast, but he took guys that had potential high ceiling, right? And he mentioned Mikey Ryan, you know, kind of some comps from from Mikey Ryan last year, where the potential was there, but he just hasn't put it together on a college field. Um, and and so look, if those things pan out, you look like a genius. Um, but if they don't, then you know, you start questioning, you know, evaluation of talent and you know, coaching that talent and so on and so forth. So I I think you have to strike a balance, right? And especially in today's age with NIL, um, mashers and high-end ballplayers are gonna cost money. And if you're not gonna give your coach the resources, then you're gonna have to do some of these creative things. And I think we've seen this with Chris Hart, right? We've seen his evaluation of talent, the guys that he's brought in over the years and that he's developed. And I don't think that's gonna change with him just being the head coach. Like, like, will he dedicate more like as much time as he's doing now with that or you know, last season? No, I don't think so. I think you know that's the reason why he bought it brought in um the coach from Taylor Black, thank you. I was trying, I was I knew Taylor, I just couldn't get his last name out of my head. Thanks. Um, but that's why he brings in a Taylor Black um to do some of those things. And and again, we'll talk about some of those, sounds like some of those responsibilities that these coaches will have. Um so yeah, I like it. And and and the fact that to be able to adapt on the run, right? Because again, we talked about those in-game adjustments. Like if you're if you're facing uh one of those Carolina pitchers that are really good or or Nat coming back from Clemson and they're you know they're pitching really good, this might be a one, two, three run kind of game. So like maybe you do have to, I hate to say it, Ethan, bunt with your number three hitter or whatever. Um, but again, I think I think he's gonna have an eye for those things.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Yeah. Yeah, what stood out to me too there was playing to your personnel. Right. And I think that was something that we didn't really see either the last two years, where I felt like you needed to run more with Ty Head, with Luke Nixon, with Rhett Johnson and Mikey Ryan this year. Yeah, Sherman Johnson. Like and they just they just didn't. And so being able to say, okay, hey, we we don't have as much power as we would like, right? We we would love to have a couple of 15 home run guys, but we don't. And so now as a result, okay, Rhett Johnson, go steal 30 bags for us, and we're not we're not gonna be intimidated by UNC's throwing game or Auburn's throwing game and say, well, we just we can't we can't run, they're too good. You're good too. You're good too. But Rhett Johnson is still fast, right? So um that was something that I liked.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

So and we'll just let's this this because Rhett was brought up in the press conference. So since he was brought up, he this is a good kind of opportunity to kind of maybe segue a little bit. Rhett was seven of nine for the for the USA baseball team this summer. Seven of nine. He only had 14 stolen bases in the entire uh NC State baseball season. Like, and we talked about it during the regular season. Like, that's criminal. Like you you've got, and that's just Rhett Johnson. You already mentioned the other guys um that had the ability to steal. And I just don't think that we we took advantage of some of the things that we were better on paper, um, especially when you played teams like Duke who couldn't throw out couldn't throw out you know the slowest person in the world, like you know, my grandmother on a walker. They weren't throwing them out. Uh so again, I I'm these are some of the things that I'm hoping will will change. Um, and that you know, we're not just getting quote unquote coach speak, um, that you know the the video will match the audio. Um, but but again, that excites me. Um, again, as a fan, that like it looks like he's noticed some things that we could have maybe done better because uh I'm sure you'll talk about it like the building of the roster. Um like he put an emphasis really much I sorry that didn't that was a horrible English really bad. He put a real big infant emphasis on pitching, right? Because again, he saw kind of how that season unraveled when you lost, you know, um your your two dogs.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Yeah. Yeah. And I thought too, kind of, you know, speaking of philosophy, he was asked, you know, what is your philosophy? What how is it different from Avant? Kind of another question of like, what are you gonna change? And I thought it was interesting, like again, not that he was throwing or saying anything bad about Elliot Avent, but he says, from a baseball and strategy standpoint, I carry a lot of what Coach Martin taught at Florida State. And you know, he references the other Florida State alums who are who are head coaches, uh Link Jarrett, obviously, Mike Bell at Pitt, and then James Ramsey at Georgia Tech. Um, and then he talks about the culture you know, that's influenced by A event and you know how how can you mesh those two together? But you know, emphasizing, hey, from a baseball perspective, Coach Martin, this is what he said Coach Martin focused strictly on on field coaching without much team bonding, whereas Avent was the exact opposite. Playing to mesh those two styles. And again, not that a bigger reason. Of our success under Elliott was that he let us coach the baseball side while he built a culture where Pros cared about NC State. The baseball instruction will stay consistent.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

And and and I've talked to a lot of the ball players. I mean, you know that, right? And one of the things that I've heard time and time again was culture. Like culture, culture, culture was a big reason why those guys. And again, you still have to have talent, right? Like I'm not saying that, okay, if you have, you know, 30 culture dudes, you're gonna make the College World Series. No, but like guys truly cared for one another. They would pick one another up if you know someone was having a bad day or whatever. Um there's like the bonds on on road trips. And you saw it last year when they came up to DC and did their activities up here, and they're just trying to, again, going into Hawaii, uh, going to Puerto Rico. Those things are bonding trips. You know, they're early in the season, and I know we give sometimes we give, you know, we gave event crap because the schedule sucked. But, you know, there was there was more than just playing ball games there. And and that I got that so many times from different ball players. So it's glad to hear that Heart's gonna kind of continue those types of things.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

And and that's awesome, right? It's an important part of not only, as you said, the team bonding, but also the experience of a college athlete, right? Like it is, it is more than just the 55 games you play during a season. And so I think that's important. At the same time, as a fan, like I can't help but sit here as a uh as a fan, right? Like, I I I'm not anything else, and say, like, feel like not that that hurts you, but like it like it feels like we can be doing you can still do it and play better competition or whatever. Well, playing better competition, I wasn't so much focused on the schedule, but more of just like I thought there were things that state should have been doing better. And and more so kind of the stuff we've talked about is playing to your strengths as a team, you know, making the right decisions uh on the mound, right? And so I was encouraged to hear that. I was encouraged to say, hey, like from a strategic perspective, let's look at Florida State, right? And not that Florida State's perfect, right? They've made it to Omaha approxim conservatively like a million times and never won somehow. I think 25 times. Oh, I was thinking it was in the 30s, but yeah, whatever. I mean, it's it's unbelievable that they've never won. But it's crazy. But again, like I and you look at those coaches that have all done very well. I mean, Link Jarr Link Jarrett has been unbelievable, and he was unbelievable at Notre Dame of all places. Notre Dame. Yeah, you know, James Ramsey comes into Georgia Tech and in year one completely flips them. And Mike Bell, look, Pittsburgh, I'm not gonna sit here and lie to you and be like, oh, Pittsburgh, look at Pittsburgh. No, he's got them per he's got them performing relative to where you expect Pittsburgh to be. He's got the worst resources there.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Like they literally have a scoreboard that doesn't work.

unknown 25:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

I'm not even kidding.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Yeah, like and they've been on the periphery. You know, remember this year, people were saying, oh, they should be in the turban over NC State. Well, he's had them on the periphery, and again, like relative to expectations, I think he's had them doing them doing very well there. And so, yeah, you know, can Chris Hart get into that mix? We've mentioned UNC where Scott Forbes took them from feel like they had kind of plateaued with Mike Fox to now Scott Forbes has the I mean, look, I one game away. I yeah, I know we all hate UNC, yep, but like that has been a very, very well-oiled machine the last three, four years, five years, yeah, since Scott Forbes took over. And if NC State could get to that level, get to that level of consistency, where I think they've been a top eight seed the last three years, they've been to Omaha a couple of times, like that's that's the kind of position you want to be in. So uh, and again, Forbes is not a Florida State guy, so he doesn't apply here. But that was something that I like to hear was like, hey, it's not just the team camaraderie and rah-rah, we're gonna, you know, play our seniors and all this other stuff. Like there's there's more to it than that. Um, and it also makes me, I don't know, like sometimes I feel bad, you know, being critical, and I wonder if I'm being too critical. I'm sure a lot of people are like, you're too critical, but you kind of wonder like, are are other people inside the program kind of thinking the same thing? And not that Chris Hart came out and said this, but kind of feels like there probably were some disagreements, not disagreements, I guess, with right, right exactly. And and things that you would like to do differently. And I don't know, like for me, I'm encouraged that maybe we will end up seeing some of those adjustments we want to see.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yeah, and I think disagreements are okay. Like, I honestly, if I was the boss, I wouldn't want to be surrounded by yes men. Like, I want to be challenged a little bit, but you know, with respect. Um and so, yeah, we will never know how that got, especially over the last couple of years. But again, like Avent made two college world series in those last four years, five years at state. Like it's hard to argue with those results. Um now I do like, I really do like heart taking the best of, you know, best in best in standards, best in industry. I work in IT, so that's a term that you hear a lot, you know, best best in industry, you know, the industry standards. Um, so I do like that, right? And again, this is maybe something what state was is needing, right, to kind of push them to that next level is just again, a fresh, fresh set of eyes on the program. You know, you're bringing in you know, new coaches, um, you're you're reassigning coaches roles. Um, everybody kind of gets elevated. Um and so, like if I'm a coach on staff right now and I see Chris Hart, one that we've promoted within, that makes me feel really good about staying on staff, right? Because now I have the chance to grow with inside the program. Like I don't have to go outside of the family to be able to move up in the ladder. Um, because that's exactly one of the things that Chris Hart was talking about in this press conference is like, hey, like, is there is there the next you on this staff? And he goes, I I sure hope so. Um, and and so when everybody's rowing in the same direction, you you you get more positive traction. And again, I I'm I'm hoping that's some of the things that we're gonna see kind of develop in the next year or two. Yeah.

unknown 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

All right, Greg, let's hop over to the Patreon. We've got a few more things to cover. We've been going for 25, 30 minutes here. So let's hop over to the Patreon for part two of this. Um, be sure to like, share, and subscribe uh as seen below. Follow us on all of our social medias, YouTube, and then obviously the Patreon for part two of this patreon.com uh slash toughytalk. So we'll see you guys over there for part two.